tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post5845833159166159483..comments2024-03-28T07:14:01.343+00:00Comments on donpaskini: What's fair?donpaskinihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05963534291677598324noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post-31218479676194558352008-09-27T23:05:00.000+00:002008-09-27T23:05:00.000+00:00Shit, and I thought that the phrase 'undeserving p...Shit, and I thought that the phrase 'undeserving poor' belonged to the Edwardian era. Good to see that under Brown's leadership Labour has acquired the moral judgementalism of a pre-Great war Tory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post-89171830400315768332008-09-24T11:41:00.000+00:002008-09-24T11:41:00.000+00:00I think it is a good thing, though, that Sure Star...I think it is a good thing, though, that Sure Start and free nursery care are open to people on higher incomes. They're helping to pay for it, after all, through their taxes.<BR/><BR/>It's not the people at the top who lose out when these services become excessively targeted (they can always pay for services privately), it is the people on the borderline - the ones who would really appreciate or make good use of the service but are denied it because they are just the wrong side of the earnings line or don't quite meet the criteria, or who have to plough through thick booklets of rules to find out if they are entitled, who lose out.<BR/><BR/>And this, I think, is rather unfair.donpaskinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05963534291677598324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post-34126590113157962852008-09-24T11:19:00.000+00:002008-09-24T11:19:00.000+00:00That entire argument hinges on the phrase "rather ...That entire argument hinges on the phrase "rather than build in masses of additional complexity to over target them" - the assumption being that that complexity costs more than the money 'lost' to the undeserving that would otherwise be saved. It's a flawed assumption since it's perfectly possible to target resources effectively (even if the Tax credit system demonstrates it's not something Labour can do well)<BR/><BR/>A few examples to illustrate the point - yesterday Gordon Brown offered free nursery care to tens of thousands of CEO's and City traders raking in millions a year (and believe me they'll take advantage), the local surestart reading group my wife attends with our son is exclusively attended by 4x4 driving, middle class mothers who have absolutely no need of the support it provides.... and so on, and so on.Liam Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493956117016119698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post-66536592301079757402008-09-24T08:56:00.000+00:002008-09-24T08:56:00.000+00:00I think sorting the deserving from the undeserving...I think sorting the deserving from the undeserving is more than a problem of political positioning, but something which tends to lead to bad policy outcomes.<BR/><BR/>So in the specific case of new government policies, the implication is that, where possible, it is fairer to make new services universally applicable, and not worry if some undeserving people benefit from them, rather than build in masses of additional complexity to over target them.<BR/><BR/>Obviously this is not always possible, but it is a good rule of thumb and general approach. <BR/><BR/>So the tests for who gets help from, say, free bus passes should be simple (all people over a certain age) rather than complicated (all people over a certain age who worked for x number of years before retiring and who can demonstrate that they would use public transport, and who are too poor to own a car). <BR/><BR/>That's even though it would arguably be 'fairer' on Brown's definition to restrict free bus passes to people who have contributed during their working life, and who can prove that they actually need to use the bus.donpaskinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05963534291677598324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33451096.post-8719295049524711112008-09-24T07:50:00.000+00:002008-09-24T07:50:00.000+00:00I agree with much of this but there's a muddle her...I agree with much of this but there's a muddle here.<BR/><BR/>It's true that making efforts to distinguish the 'deserving' from the 'undeserving' can exacerbate feelings of 'unfairness' - but that's a problem of political positioning. It's a superficial thing all politicians must address and successful ones do it very well. <BR/><BR/>But am I right in reading into this that you reject the very idea of fairness and your answer is not to even try? Simply help as many people as you can regardless or merit or need?<BR/><BR/>Surely not Don...?Liam Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493956117016119698noreply@blogger.com