Thursday, October 25, 2007

Odd allies

Here is Nick Cohen, writing, "there are more Labour supporters in London than you may realise who are sick of his betrayals [commissioning a report about Islamophobia]. The opposition parties don’t seem to know it, but we will vote against Livingstone with relish."

And here is someone who stands to benefit greatly if Labour supporters vote against Livingstone, calling for London boroughs to be able to build housing for the wealthy without having to provide affordable housing (or, as an approving commentator writes, 'sponger housing').


At 8:44 am , Anonymous jdc said...

Dan that's not entirely fair on Nick, is it? He doesn't say that commissioning a report on Islamophobia is a betrayal, he says it's 'fair enough'.

What he says is that cosying up to people who support the death penalty for homosexuality, encourage FGM, and make excuses for suicide bombers, is a betrayal.

Which it is. I'll vote Labour in the Mayoral election because the Mayor isn't a foreign minister, and I quite like houses and buses, but this ongoing behaviour is still an embarrassment.

At 12:28 pm , Blogger donpaskini said...

But is this 'cosying up' any more than inviting them to the occasional meetings? Like, is there any evidence that it leads to anti-gay, anti-women or anti-Jewish policies in London?

If it is (and I don't live in London so haven't been following closely) then that would be different and a betrayal as you say, but actions more important than words and all that.

At 2:10 pm , Anonymous jdc said...

Policies, I don't think so. I do, however, think it leads those who would seek those policies in the public realm, and who hold to them in the private realm, to believe that those views are tolerated more by British society and officialdom than they in fact are, and therefore slows the process of their rejection.

At 6:34 am , Anonymous Daniel said...

There is no evidence that Al-Qaradawi supports the death penalty for homosexuals.

When invited to London by Ken Livingstone in 2005 he said, on Channel 4 News: "It is sufficient for a Muslim to object to it verbally or at least within his conscience".

The gay Muslim group Imaan wrote later, on another attempt by the media to falsely represent Al-Qaradawi's position:
"We disagree with Al-Qaradawi's views on homosexuality, which mirror views of Jewish and Christian leaders, but we believe that singling out Islam as being uniquely reactionary encourages Islamophobia and divides the Muslim and Lesbian and Gay communities...

"What is not helpful in the fight against homophobia and Islamophobia, oppressions that equally victimise LGBT Muslims, is having the media and... others continuously misrepresenting Islam. Journalists should ensure their facts are accurate."

At 3:19 pm , Anonymous jdc said...


At 9:53 pm , Anonymous Daniel said...

The link provides no evidence Al-Qaradawi supports the death penalty for homosexuals.

The source is of course the incompentent and Islamophobic LAGHA which inaccurately stated in 2005 "If there was any doubt about Qaradawi's fundamentalist credentials, this latest outburst will put it to rest. To call for the execution of Prince Tameem Bin Hamad Al-Thani simply because he is gay flies in the face...." when of course Al Qaradawi said no such thing. When they realised their error they removed the press release from their website without comment.

At 4:11 am , Anonymous jdc said...

"The source is of course the incompentent and Islamophobic LAGHA"

The original source, however, is Qaradawi's website Islamonline.

Muslim jurists hold different opinions concerning the punishment for this abominable practice. Should it be the same as the punishment for fornication, or should both the active and passive participants be put to death? While such punishments may seem cruel, they have been suggested to maintain the purity of the Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements."

Moreover, Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi scholar and lecturer, adds:

"Islam emphatically forbids this deed [homosexual sex] and prescribes a severe punishment for it in this world and the next. How could it be otherwise, when the Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut, kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.’ (At-Tirmidhi: 1376) That is, if it is done with consent."

The scholars of Islam, such as Malik, Ash-Shafi`i, Ahmad and Ishaaq said that (the person guilty of this crime) should be stoned, whether he is married or unmarried.

Doesn't seem very ambiguous to me, in fact.

At 8:47 am , Anonymous Daniel said...

A quote which begins:

"Muslim jurists hold different opinions...." and then cites clear opinions of other scholars.

In contrast Al-Qaradawi was clearly quoted in the Guardian on 12 July 2004: "Muslims have no right to punish homosexuals or mistreat them"

At 9:55 am , Anonymous jdc said...

Goodness. Saying different things to a Muslim audience from a Guardian reading audience? Well that's a first. His comment seems to me to read as opposing vigilantism, not opposing punishment by the Islamic state.

Read the website again again. "Muslim jurists hold different opinions", but execution is that of the ones identified as the "scholars of Islam". The punishment "may seem" cruel, not "is", and is followed not by "however", but by "moreover".

At 12:48 pm , Blogger geoffrey_r_brown said...

The notorious quote from Qaradawi that begins "The jurists of Islam have held differing opinions concerning the punishment for this abominable practice..." is in fact from a book called The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam, which was published back in 1960 and presumably written in the late 1950s.

If Qaradawi himself supported the death penalty for homosexuality, you'd have thought that some time during the half-a-century since then he would have said so. Nobody has been able to produce such a statement on his part.

In a 2006 interview Qaradawi was asked what the punishment should be for people who had engaged in gay or lesbian sexual acts. He replied:

"There is disagreement, so it is possible for us to choose from them in our era what is most appropriate, and what is lightest, recognising how widespread the tribulation is: because tribulations and sins being widespread is something in Islamic legal theory that causes things to be lightened."

This shows that Qaradawi, like many religious figures, has a crap position on homosexuality. But it doesn't exactly sound like a call for the execution of gay men, does it?

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